Guest Post: Thinking Big When Your Ministry Feels Small

I had the opportunity to write a guest post over on My post was about how to apply realistic principles and ask appropriate questions that will challenge the status quo. No matter what size your church is or how many kids come, I believe God wants you to be the best leader you can be so that you can communicate the gospel with as many people as possible.

Tony Kummer and his team do a great job putting out quality info to help Kids Pastors in churches of all shapes and sizes, and it’s all for free. Here’s a link to the article.

TakeTen: Why Blog? with Tony Kummer

I had a short lived idea to do a video podcast that I called TakeTen. It would TakeTen minutes to make and TakeTen minutes to listen to it. My idea was to interview different people in kidmin for ten minutes and release it as a podcast unedited and uncensored. The video aspect didn’t work so well so I thought I would turn the idea into a podcast.

Today I am going to talk with Tony Kummer from Tony is a great guy he is very passionate about reaching the kids in his own church but though his blog he is equipping, training people from all over the country and beyond that to kids ministries in the rest of the world.

Tony has lots of great insight and advice. Definitely worth 10 minutes of your time.

Why numbers matter in Kidmin.

Tony Kummer put this on his facebook and it got me thinking.

What kind of attendance numbers do you track in your #kidmin? Just say this post from Henrietta Mears that got me thinking. She said, “Don’t be afraid to count numbers. Numbers stand for people for whom Christ died. Count them!”

I have a love hate relationship with numbers – (Yes I was horrible at math growing up but that’s not what I am talking about) I believe that in order for things to grow you have to evaluate them. You can only evaluate what you mesure so weather you admit it or not you have a system of measurement.

There are the extremes out there. Those people whose worth is connected to the size of their ministry so they count everyone twice. Then there are those out there who react to that guy and don’t count anything and say numbers don’t matter.

They are actually both right and both wrong,for me it’s all about motivation with numbers – We need to know because each kid matters to God, not because my worth is tied numbers. The interesting thing for me is that in the parable of the lost sheep in Luke 15 the shepherd left the 99 and went out after the one. How would the shepherd know 1 was missing if he never knew he had 100 sheep?

The amount of kids that come is not everything but it is something. I think the bigger problem in the church at large and definitely in children’s ministry is we are not good at is creating measurable goals for our leaders. As a result of that we default to the easiest measurable goal out there, who came. I think obsessiveness over numbers is a sign of week leadership. If we create a culture that is gospel focused people will come and people will grow.

The problem I have is what should I be measuring? Because what we mesure is what we get. How do I give ownership to my team by giving them specific mesurable goals to help them know that what they are doing is significant?

What do you mesure and why?

New podcast over at

Funny last week I was wondering if anyone was doing a children’s ministry podcast, I only know of one or two. That same week Tony Kummer called me and asked if I could do an interview with him. He did the first episode with Amy Fenton Lee that’s definitely worth a listen. So last week I recorded a phone interview with Tony Kummer over at Head on over and check it out.