December 2021

3 Comments / December 16, 2021

I have been a part of the children’s ministry conversation for over 20 years. Several years ago, I was in a conversation with a few friends where we coined the term “Kidmin.” Initially, I saw the issues of parent involvement in the discipleship of their kids as an issue that was founded in children’s ministry

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3 responses to “Parents as Partners”

Mark Harper

December 16, 2021

Hey Sam,
Great post.
I have never ascribed to the ‘parents are the primary disciplers of their kids philosophy. Common sense tells that parents are only the primary disciplers if they are actually discipling their kids. They may be the primary disciplers, they may not be. There is no way to that a statement like that applies to every kid and every family. What about single parent homes, homes where only one parent is a christian or both parents are unbelievers? I’ve been in Kids Ministry since 1980 and I got admit – parents were more involved in their kids discipleship 20 years ago than they are today after hearing that they are the ‘primary disciplers’ for the past two decades. It’s time to admit the slogan isn’t working. I have found the most effective way to train parents to disciple their kids is to get them involved in the kids ministry and teach them how to minister to kids. It’s a win/win. Parents help me build a string kids program and I mentor them to disciple their own kids.

samluce

December 18, 2021

100% Agree Mark thanks for the comment. Proximity does not determine primacy if there is not intentionality. The difference between now and 20 years ago is more parents were being discipled then. Parents don’t disciple their kids because the church has settled for telling them to do it with showing them how.

Reply

Nick Parker

December 20, 2021

I’ve been wrestling with this a lot lately. It’s probably due to a combination of:

1. Being in ministry for so long (I’ve been the Children’s Minister at the church I serve for 17 years now)
2. Seeing my own kids growing up and becoming disciples (9yrs & 14yrs)
3. Seeing the ridiculous amount of pressure the church puts on parents to be the “primary disciplers of their children.”
4. Being the recipient of that pressure (self-inflicted as it may be)

Anyway, I have began looking again with fresh eyes at some of those “classic KidMin passages” like Deut 6, Ephesians 4, etc. and simply asking, “Is it saying what we have been saying what it’s saying?” And I have to answer, yes…and no. My biggest concern from the beginning with the Deut 6. passage are connected to some of the things you outline in your post. First, this command to teach “your children” wasn’t Moses sitting with one family telling dad, “This is your job and your job only.” No. This was the entire community assembled together with the collective “your children.” It was the whole family gathered being told to teach their children. It would be like Moses preaching this sermon on a Sunday to all the families who lived in the same apartment complex who have come together. But even that falls short because this was a people who were “group” oriented in a way we will never be.

And the Ephesians passage, that’s a great verse. But wow, when you look at the command and how those two words “discipline” and “instruction” are used elsewhere in the Bible and other literature, you find that they don’t give a whole lot of specific help/direction. It’s very open ended. But I ask myself, does “Bring your children up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord” mean we have to push dads (not moms cuz they aren’t mentioned :\ ) to do Family Worship 5-7 nights a week, have a date night once a week, be in a Small Group, come to church every Sunday and every church event too, and of course make sure you are putting together milestone birthday events every year, and be sure you are doing a catachism, and working on memorizing Scripture, and on and on.

I recently downloaded from a bunch of churches their versions of a Family Discipleship Guide and was just blown away by the sheer number of pages in so many of these. It wasn’t that it wasn’t helpful. It was just overwhelming. I mean, for me, imagine this conversation and the resulting list.

A family come up to your average KidMin and says, “We want to do EVERYTHING we are supposed to do as the spiritual leaders of our children. Just tell us all the things you tell parents to do so we can be the primarily spiritual leaders to our children. We will write it down and start doing them all” Oh the list that would be created from all the books, discipleship guides, emails, blog posts, take-home papers, conferences, etc. It’s so much that at least for me, I’ve seen it backfire and lead to the things I say, encourage, model, etc. becoming just more noise for parents/families that are already so overwhelmed.

I’ve been spending time lately looking at the commands God gives to children and specific commands that God gives to parents, mothers, and fathers. And I’ll be honest, the list is short. Anyway, this is a rambling sort of “get stuff off my chest” kind of comment. I’ll close with saying I’ve really appreciated the things you’ve had to say Sam. I’ve been in a number of your breakout sessions at various conferences over the years. Thanks for what you do.

Mark Harper

December 16, 2021

Hey Sam,
Great post.
I have never ascribed to the ‘parents are the primary disciplers of their kids philosophy. Common sense tells that parents are only the primary disciplers if they are actually discipling their kids. They may be the primary disciplers, they may not be. There is no way to that a statement like that applies to every kid and every family. What about single parent homes, homes where only one parent is a christian or both parents are unbelievers? I’ve been in Kids Ministry since 1980 and I got admit – parents were more involved in their kids discipleship 20 years ago than they are today after hearing that they are the ‘primary disciplers’ for the past two decades. It’s time to admit the slogan isn’t working. I have found the most effective way to train parents to disciple their kids is to get them involved in the kids ministry and teach them how to minister to kids. It’s a win/win. Parents help me build a string kids program and I mentor them to disciple their own kids.

1. samluce
  
  December 18, 2021
  
  100% Agree Mark thanks for the comment. Proximity does not determine primacy if there is not intentionality. The difference between now and 20 years ago is more parents were being discipled then. Parents don’t disciple their kids because the church has settled for telling them to do it with showing them how.
  
Nick Parker

December 20, 2021

I’ve been wrestling with this a lot lately. It’s probably due to a combination of:

1. Being in ministry for so long (I’ve been the Children’s Minister at the church I serve for 17 years now)
2. Seeing my own kids growing up and becoming disciples (9yrs & 14yrs)
3. Seeing the ridiculous amount of pressure the church puts on parents to be the “primary disciplers of their children.”
4. Being the recipient of that pressure (self-inflicted as it may be)

Anyway, I have began looking again with fresh eyes at some of those “classic KidMin passages” like Deut 6, Ephesians 4, etc. and simply asking, “Is it saying what we have been saying what it’s saying?” And I have to answer, yes…and no. My biggest concern from the beginning with the Deut 6. passage are connected to some of the things you outline in your post. First, this command to teach “your children” wasn’t Moses sitting with one family telling dad, “This is your job and your job only.” No. This was the entire community assembled together with the collective “your children.” It was the whole family gathered being told to teach their children. It would be like Moses preaching this sermon on a Sunday to all the families who lived in the same apartment complex who have come together. But even that falls short because this was a people who were “group” oriented in a way we will never be.

And the Ephesians passage, that’s a great verse. But wow, when you look at the command and how those two words “discipline” and “instruction” are used elsewhere in the Bible and other literature, you find that they don’t give a whole lot of specific help/direction. It’s very open ended. But I ask myself, does “Bring your children up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord” mean we have to push dads (not moms cuz they aren’t mentioned :\ ) to do Family Worship 5-7 nights a week, have a date night once a week, be in a Small Group, come to church every Sunday and every church event too, and of course make sure you are putting together milestone birthday events every year, and be sure you are doing a catachism, and working on memorizing Scripture, and on and on.

I recently downloaded from a bunch of churches their versions of a Family Discipleship Guide and was just blown away by the sheer number of pages in so many of these. It wasn’t that it wasn’t helpful. It was just overwhelming. I mean, for me, imagine this conversation and the resulting list.

A family come up to your average KidMin and says, “We want to do EVERYTHING we are supposed to do as the spiritual leaders of our children. Just tell us all the things you tell parents to do so we can be the primarily spiritual leaders to our children. We will write it down and start doing them all” Oh the list that would be created from all the books, discipleship guides, emails, blog posts, take-home papers, conferences, etc. It’s so much that at least for me, I’ve seen it backfire and lead to the things I say, encourage, model, etc. becoming just more noise for parents/families that are already so overwhelmed.

I’ve been spending time lately looking at the commands God gives to children and specific commands that God gives to parents, mothers, and fathers. And I’ll be honest, the list is short. Anyway, this is a rambling sort of “get stuff off my chest” kind of comment. I’ll close with saying I’ve really appreciated the things you’ve had to say Sam. I’ve been in a number of your breakout sessions at various conferences over the years. Thanks for what you do.

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